Chris:
Thinking ahead, just one of the many topics we discussed today with our guest, Daniel Dinsmore, CEO, owner and founder of Overit Media and Overit Studios. He is literally the reason why we have this podcast today. And I’m really excited to talk to him about his journey as a musician and as the owner and founder of a really interesting and unique brand.
Chris:
One of the things that we discuss that I really, really admire and I think is so important in our dialogue, in our business today, is having the ability to think ahead, having the ability to look out and go beyond where you are now, two, three, five, even 10 years out, not only as a business, but as a human to really understand where your place is and how you can keep on going, because as a human that’s how you survive. The only way to survive is to stay one step ahead. And the same thing goes for a business.
Chris:
And I think a lot of agencies, a lot of people in business, they don’t really, they have five-year plans, but really what does that mean? How far out does it go? Are you looking at technology? Are you looking at all of the things that you might not be doing now and embracing that, and rolling that in? And Dan and the Overit brand has done an excellent job of recognizing that and pushing people beyond what they normally do, helping them all get over it.
Chris:
So, let’s get into the interview now. Let’s talk to Dan, and let’s find out how he actually went from what he was doing and got over it.
Chris:
Right. So, today our guest on the Get Overit Podcast is literally the reason why we have Get Overit Podcast, Dan Dinsmore, the founder, CEO principal at Overit Media. What I love about Dan, one of the things I love most about Dan is that he is unique in a lot of ways, and he doesn’t shy away from his uniqueness, which I think in our world today is fading. And he puts that uniqueness into this brand and pushes everyone that he works with to become unique and get over it. And that I assume, and we’re going to hear from him directly today, is why he created the Get Overit brand. Dan, welcome to the show.
Dan:
Hey, Chris, thanks for having me.
Chris:
All right. So, this is fun for me because I know you now almost two years, and I know you superficially, I know enough about you. I know enough about the business. But I don’t know Dan. So, I want to talk about, and I think a lot of people that know you would probably want to understand how you got to here, how you got to a marketing agency, a marketing mind, a brander, you’re a musician. So, I want to talk about the transition of that, how that inspired you. So, talk to me about a young Dan as a musician, where did that come from and how did that push you into what we think of now as marketing?
Dan:
Sure. Well, I’ll try, it goes back quite a bit, Chris.
Chris:
I know. Not quite a bit.
Dan:
So, when I was 12 years old, my dad passed away. And when he had passed away, I was filled with angst and confusion, and those types of things. So, I really took a liking to my brother-in-law, who was a drummer, and I really took a liking to the drums.
Chris:
As like an outlet or the sound, or both?
Dan:
I think it was an outlet at first. And I’d always grown up listening to music in the house when my sisters, they played music constantly. So, I was always attracted to music and grew up around music. But after he had passed, I really needed an outlet. And I was into things like baseball and basketball, and sports, and all sorts of crazy stuff. But I think the music just rang with me because it was very personal. It wasn’t really a group activity. I could take my aggression out. And the drums, it’s very physical.
Chris:
And it was physical too.
Dan:
So, that really took hold of me at a pretty young age. And I really started pursuing that. And throughout that time, I played a lot and had grew up with a lot great musicians, and continued to do that into my twenties, basically. And at that time I started touring and playing in bands that were on tour and doing pretty well, around the country.
Chris:
You were making money from this yet, or no?
Dan:
I don’t know about money, but we were doing okay.
Chris:
I mean, you know what I mean, it was like, you were getting for this. So, it became like a thing.
Dan:
Yeah, we were getting paid for this to a degree, I mean, not enough to have existence.
Chris:
You weren’t flying a private jet or anything like that.
Dan:
Not at that point.
Chris:
Not yet.
Dan:
Not at that point. So, basically, then from there, at some point I had to get a real job because I wasn’t on tour all the time, and I had to start making some money. So, I went to a company which I was always attracted to data and analytics, and I did research for about three or four years for a company analyzing very high spends on telephone systems for 9X, if you remember the company 9X.
Chris:
I don’t remember 9X.
Dan:
Yeah. So, it was the telephone company. So, I would do about two interviews with people that paid a great amount of money on their phone systems and did research basically, which was pretty horrendous.
Chris:
How the hell did you get into that? What was that?
Dan:
I fell into it from a buddy of mine. I was getting my degree in business and it just made sense, and I was always interested in marketing and it was a marketing company. But that drove me into research. But at that time I was still playing music and tours would pop up.
Chris:
And then you’d go, right?
Dan:
And I’d go, and then I come back. And you really couldn’t hold a steady job with any type of consistency. So, I ended up on tour. And when I came back, I was hanging around a group of folks or some friends of mine. We had this little group of people that were very interested by computers and design, and creative.
Chris:
Now, this is when? Because you said computers in a way where this wasn’t a time where computers were like now.
Dan:
No, it was before AOL sent out the discs in the mail to connect to the internet. So, there was no internet, but we were messing around with computers and doing a lot of testing with like, “Hey, can we do video stuff on here? Can we do audio stuff on here?” Which nobody was doing, because it just didn’t have the power to be able to handle it, but we were always pushing the boundaries. So, I enveloped and hung around a crew of pretty crazy geniuses that have all gone on to being very successful in their own right to varying levels and degrees. They were just very smart kids really, that were just inspired to create. So, we were doing that in our spare time.
Dan:
We actually worked for one of the guys dad’s, owned DJ’s Niteclub up in Lake George, and we would live in the house and back, and just work on computers all day and make music all day. And we weren’t making money. There was no money involved. So, we were just very driven by interactivity and technology. And at that time, with the band stuff, I was toying with brand and design, because I was doing a lot of design work for bands and covers at that time, it was cassettes.
Chris:
Yeah, that’s right. Press play. Yeah.
Dan:
A lot of cassettes. So, I’d make a little extra money doing design work and some stuff when I wasn’t on tour. And through the touring, I met quite a few people and made some connections, and met a lot of people. And we were messing around with this thing called Director, which is an interactive platform to make videos on computers. And you could do interactivity, almost like what a website would do way back when.
Dan:
And as I was on tour I met this guy, Benji Gold. I’ll never forget him. And he had a deal with working with US West and the Colorado Avalanche, and The Denver Nuggets. And they wanted to really push the boundaries. When you go to a basketball or baseball game, they have giveaways, bobblehead giveaways. They wanted to do this thing called CD ROMs.
Dan:
So, I was hanging around this guy, Brian Mancell, Who’s just a really brilliant guy, brilliant musician, brilliant technologist. He was just out of control smart. And we started getting involved in creating these CD ROMs when I was off tour. And Brian would work, and I would work, and we worked together. And I was more working on creative and that type of stuff. And Brian was learning the code for this Director platform. So, we created these and it was somewhat successful. So, we started to develop a little name for ourselves in this creation process. And it wasn’t just doing it for your neighbor, we were doing some pretty hefty work through this guy that I had met through bands.
Chris:
This was independent like a company or an independent thing you guys were doing?
Dan:
I wouldn’t call it a company.
Chris:
Right. But you were just doing it. You guys put it together.
Dan:
Yeah. I mean, me and Brian, and there was a few other folks that we would involve in the process, but it was pretty much the two of us that were working on this stuff.
Chris:
And you did that for how long, how long was that going on?
Dan:
I’d say about two years, a year and a half, two years. And in that time, we were still just very creative, very interested in creating and technology, and where are things going? And we were very driven young guys. So, we did a lot of really great things and interesting things, and push the technology as far as we could push it. And once that happened, I’d go on tour. And I ended up getting in a little bit more of a successful musical act.
Dan:
And when I was out on tour, everywhere I went on tour, it’d be meeting people and I’d also be going, take a walk down the street to the music store and I’d hang out, because I was doing a lot of design for bands stuff. And then we started doing musical CD ROMs and all these things. So, I would just put the brand up.
Dan:
And basically, Overit came out of a name that was me and this guy, Brian Mancell. And when we would be working on something and something would always go wrong. I mean, back in those days, you try to capture a video, and if you captured five seconds at 640 by 480, you’d be like-
Chris:
Yes, we got it.
Dan:
… yes, we got the world, which was hilarious. And we got to that point and we started continuing to work. And as we would run into these obstacles, it was just a slang word that we would just use as kids.
Chris:
Get over it.
Dan:
Or Brian would just sit there and be like, “I’m over it.” And we’d be working, we’d work 36 hours straight. Brian Mancell would just work, just nonstop.
Chris:
You didn’t brand your thing then as Overit, or you did?
Dan:
So, as time went on a little bit, it was originally Brian Mancell and I were partners. And it was just fun times, but we were like, “Okay. We got to come up with a name.” Because we were housed in a recording studio. This guy had a building, Paul van Daddy had this building called Max Tracks Recording Studio in Albany, New York. And we had this little room. So, we’re going to make a real go of this and make this a thing. And so, it’s like we’re trying to think of a name. And as during that process throughout, the name, I just remember Brian go, “Oh, I’m over it. Just call it whatever.”
Chris:
And then that was it.
Dan:
And I was like, yeah, I just called it Overit, because we were also doing things. I was in musical projects and interactive stuff we were doing with Om, which is a sound that actually permeates the universe on a consistent basis. And the Om, that’s where our mark came from. If you look at the Om, it’s like a three, and if you move that around a little bit, we made it a more simplistic version of that.
Chris:
This is the Overit logo that Dan is talking about, if you guys see it, it has a unique shape.
Dan:
So yeah, so that’s where it started. And I think Brian, when we got into business, I think Brian lasted about three months.
Chris:
And that was it?
Dan:
And that was it.
Chris:
Why though? It shifted?
Dan:
No, it didn’t shift. I think it was, Brian was so such a genius that he didn’t want to deal with business.
Chris:
He just wanted to do what he does.
Dan:
He didn’t really do stuff for money or anything like that. And he was just really out to create and to do a lot of just interesting dynamic things. And I think he wanted to focus on music. I think he had a heavy focus on music. And I wanted to drive into the technology side. He also stayed in the technology side. Still does, I believe. But he didn’t last too long at that point. I mean, and then he would come back and do projects, but he just didn’t want to be a business owner or deal with any of that.
Chris:
You were mainly in project based work at this point in time?
Dan:
Oh yeah.
Chris:
Right. People, you would do some stuff for one of them, then there’s the next.
Dan:
For agencies all over the country, they’d call us for doing interactive.
Chris:
Okay.
Dan:
Yeah.
Chris:
The people knew you that you did that, even though you were little on the back of it.
Dan:
Yeah. I mean, there was a few people, but there really wasn’t anyone doing what we were doing.
Chris:
And then when internet hit, and then that took it to another level.
Dan:
Well, and then the internet hit, and it was dial up, don’t forget.
Chris:
Right. Yeah, I do remember.
Dan:
So, we were mapping and doing everything that you would be thinking about doing today on the internet. But as soon as it launched, because we were used to working in interactivity on screen with videos and audio, and motion, and design, and all that stuff. So, I mean, it was really interesting. So, it was a race game of how long before the technology can keep up or get to a point where we can utilize this the way we want to utilize it, which we’re just getting there to that level now.
Chris:
See, that’s a big difference from then and now. You got to a point then where you just couldn’t go much further. Right?
Dan:
It didn’t feel that way at that time.
Chris:
It wasn’t as fast as it is now.
Dan:
No, it wasn’t as fast, no.
Chris:
You know what I’m saying? So, you were a little bit, it kept in check by the availability of what you could do. Right?
Dan:
Yeah. It was crazy. And we just kept at it and kept developing. And I think a big part of one of the foundational elements of Overit is the fact that when we got into this, we were doing brand and content, like video work and animation work, and interactive work from the get-go. So, it wasn’t anything that was like, “Oh, we got to get into this now.” So, we weren’t really an agency first. We were more of a tech innovation design shop that then got into tech. And all we did was work for other agencies throughout the country. And we did that for like eight years or so. And then I just pulled that whole plot out and just said, “Yeah, we’re not going to do that anymore.”
Chris:
But we’re coming back around now at Overit, very technology since I’ve been here.
Dan:
Yeah.
Chris:
Even in the past year, we pushed technology a lot now, even invest in people that are strictly doing technology here. I don’t think people think that way. And a lot of agencies, they shifted digital marketing, of course. But digital marketing, in my opinion, is anyone could do a digital marketing, but it takes a different type of person to understand what you’re putting out in the digital space and how you’re going to keep taking it to the next level. Because if you’re not thinking four or five years ahead, you’re going to die here because it moves so fast.
Dan:
And I think in business, there’s all different types of models in our industry. So, when you’re looking at agencies or marketing companies, there’s a lot of different types of models. But I think one of the things the pandemic did for me was it brought me back to the original essence of why we do what we do. Because you get caught up in the day to day running of a business and that type of thing. So, it’s refreshing to be able to take… I think the past five years we’ve really refocused and always been investing into technology or to bettering ourselves, pushing the boundaries and the limits is what Overit is about. It’s about getting over those obstacles of any type of interference.
Chris:
Correct.
Dan:
And I think it’s really important that if you’re going to have something that culturally, the type of individuals that we want at Overit, and I want to work with, and those people want to work with, are people that are not just here to do the 9:00 to 5:00, but here to actually push boundaries, do better and create great product and service. You know what I mean? That’s basically the essence of what this is about. So, it’s very important, I think to us to find ourselves.
Chris:
To invest. Yeah, exactly. I agree. I tell a lot of our clients and people that I talk to that this pandemic, and when you have a business and you’ve been running it for a while, you have an event like that, it can tell you a lot about your business. Right?
Dan:
[inaudible 00:16:58]
Chris:
Because when you stress a system to an extreme, you expose things, and you also see what works really well. And if you don’t use that terrible time as a way, it’s just like anything, I mean, your life, human, you go through a tough, tough time. You have to come out better for it. If you don’t, you’re wasting an opportunity. And so, I think that’s really important. And I haven’t heard a lot of people talk about that in the pandemic. They talk about how bad it was possibly for business. Yes. A lot of people were affected negatively, but there was positive in the negative. Always, you got to be able to go deep in. Right? And I mean, you’re saying that you were helped to refine the true essence of Overit in a stressful situation. Right?
Dan:
Absolutely. I mean, that was one thing I learned, Chris, was like throughout the years, is that when things are down, you have to turn that into opportunity.
Chris:
Correct.
Dan:
And if you don’t take that opportunity, every time it’s happened and I backed away from attacking that, every single time that I did that, I always look back and I go, “That was a mistake. I should have taken advantage of the opportunity.”
Chris:
You always hear stories like that.
Dan:
Because it’s the most scary time to take advantage of opportunities.
Chris:
Exactly, you’re the most vulnerable.
Dan:
That is the ideally the best time to reevaluate, take opportunity, take risks, and push forward.
Chris:
Right.
Dan:
Right.
Chris:
Yeah. But I don’t think a lot of people have that. So, the other thing too, is you’re a product of a time. You’re more of a survival guy. You’ve been in the world and a game, and business where you just went for it because you had to. It was in you, you had to survive. You had to make it. You had to go, go, go, go. Do you feel like that’s how it is? Now, I feel like we don’t have that much anymore. It’s a little more safe in terms of how people they don’t feel that as much in a time where you grew up and you knew you were a hustle.
Chris:
The one thing I love about you is that you see five years ahead, because in your life you had to, you had to be thinking next, because if you didn’t, you could have nothing. It could be gone. And then what would you do? Right. So, you’re thinking, thinking, thinking.
Chris:
I feel like a lot of people are only thinking six months, a month ahead of time nowadays. And one of the things that I love about Overit is that we force people, especially our clients. You can’t think that way. You got to understand where we’re going to be in five years from now. Has that always been in you? Or is it just your work ethic to be like, “I got to understand what’s going on.”
Dan:
I think, again, you are what you eat, and it’s who I was around influenced me greatly. And not to say that I didn’t influence them either. I just think that those experiences created that environment that you just didn’t think that way, you always had to be thinking five years ahead or you’re done. Now, could you run a business and live just in that kind of moment and not be thinking that proactively? I’m sure many do, but this business wouldn’t be able to function correctly, because it’s part of our essence, it’s part of the thread of who we are.
Dan:
So, I think it’s just, it’s extremely important to be doing that, especially in our industry. Otherwise, you’re going to lose. You’re going to fall behind and you’re not going to be able to… I guess, I’m very attracted to innovation, creation, not just doing what everybody else is doing, and not just not to do it because everybody else isn’t doing it.
Chris:
But that’s the key. And just because people are thinking like, “Oh, that sounds very like progressive and very more of a risky approach.” But I don’t think it’s that at all. There’s conservative brands that can be pushed and forced to think, and forced to think ahead, and make sure they’re… Just because you’re thinking that way or being pushed by somebody, doesn’t necessarily mean you’re being very progressive and out there in your brand. That’s not at all the case. I think you always have to have people in your ear in business and in life pushing you, and saying, “What’s next? That’s great. What’s next? Wow. We had a really good year. We could do better.”
Dan:
Right. Absolutely.
Chris:
And I think that most people, most agencies, most people than consultants, they’re more safe in their job when they live safe with their clients. Right? Because hey, if we don’t keep pushing him to grow 20% every year, we’ll be safe. But that’s not how we roll. We’re never satisfied. We’re always pushing. And I think you have to have those people. And there’s nothing wrong with that. I think it gets weird when we don’t do that anymore. And we’re just telling everyone what we want to hear all the time.
Chris:
I always joke with Dan and our team, and people like, we’ll be on a client call, this Dan, I think he knows what I’m going to say. And we’re in a room and client is on the call, we are in the room. And someone on our team, on the Overit team comes up with an idea to tell the client. And Dan hears it, and he’s at the table with our team, Overit, and the client team, these clients are paying us for this. And in the middle of it, Dan will say to me, or to another employee, “Why? Why would you suggest that?”
Dan:
Not everybody loves that, Chris.
Chris:
“I don’t agree with that.” And he does it right in front of the client. Now, a lot of people will be like, “Oh my, I can’t believe he’s doing this. He’s making us look…” But I understand what you’re doing there. So, I talk about that a little, because I think it speaks to the difference of what Overit is.
Dan:
Yeah. I mean, I have to watch myself a little bit because I’ve upset some people. Well, I mean, I just believe in transparency. And I believe in total transparency. I believe if you’re getting paid to do a job for somebody, they’re paying you to be their advocate, and they’re paying you to watch out for them-
Chris:
To get the best for them.
Dan:
… and to advocate for them.
Chris:
Right.
Dan:
Right. So, we’re just people and we’re just humans sitting around a table talking about creating something, or some sort of creation, or some sort of campaign, or whatever it may be. And I think an open, transparent conversation is critical to be transparent about asking the questions, to get the answers.
Chris:
Right. How did you get to that?
Dan:
Yeah. I mean, how did you get to that place?
Chris:
Convince me. Right?
Dan:
Yeah, kind of. I mean, it’s not to put people on the spot.
Chris:
But you’re not taking it from a boss perspective like, “I’m the boss. I don’t like that.”
Dan:
No, I’m just involved.
Chris:
You’re saying, “I want to understand why you would suggest that. Literally, genuinely, I want to know what’s your thought process?
Dan:
Right. Well, I mean, I would imagine that.
Chris:
You would hope so.
Dan:
You’d hope so.
Chris:
Correct.
Dan:
Some other people would want to understand where that’s coming from. So, I think extracting that information is a good thing and advocating too. It’s not just about the client or the other people on the other side of the table. I think it’s about getting to the best possible scenario for the smartest possible reasons.
Chris:
I think the other part about it too, is it shows the client in the room what happens when they’re not in the room, because when they’re not in the room and they’re not there, we’re debating stuff all the time. Someone has an idea, I don’t like it. Convince me why I should. And we go back and forth on it. And this isn’t our product or service. We’re not affiliated with the business. We’re just consulting or doing, helping with marketing, but we take it personal, and you have to, at least that’s how I roll. I put myself in the position, “This is my business.” I treat it like it’s my business. And you come up with an idea and I’m like, “I’m not putting that out there. Convince me.” And that’s what happens behind the scenes. And then we come to a consensus and we pitch it to the client. But sometimes it’s good for the client to see what happens and how passionate we are about their ideas. And sometimes it can get pretty heated.
Dan:
Yeah. I think in this era that we live in, people are smarter than that. And I think honesty and transparency is pretty much the only way. I don’t really believe in hiding behind a door. We’re part of the same team.
Chris:
Correct.
Dan:
So, when you’re part of the same team, you’re supposed to be pushing each other. And I think that’s something I learned from playing in musical acts and bands, and stuff, it’s like you would always be pushing each other, and you would always be, I wouldn’t say it’s taunting, but I would say that you’re pushing each other to be the best you absolutely can be.
Dan:
If you look at a producer like real producers, and I’ve gotten to work with some really great producers, they have one singular job. Their job is to bring out the absolute best performance in the people that they’re working with.
Chris:
Is that their job? I actually never knew what a producer actually does.
Dan:
I mean, they have other things that they do, but at the end of the day, a great producer is going to bring out the best performance out of a person. Right. And how they do that is in many different ways and scenarios. But I think that’s, I took that knowledge and applied that to just my approach when I’m trying to create something or I’m trying to help with the campaign, or help with a brand.
Chris:
It’s an academic approach, really. I come from academics, and in academics when I go into a room and I’m getting up in front of a bunch of academics, I have to anticipate 10 to 20 questions that I’m going to get. Because to convince a scientist about my idea, ain’t easy. No one believes you. Everyone wants you to explain it and give them the thing.
Chris:
So, there is that, you have to have the ability to have question, to be able to prepare for question or bolster your argument using data, which is something that Overit really gets into is like, “This isn’t my opinion, and this isn’t something that we think about. This is actually what the data shows. So, you can disagree with it. You won’t offend me, but just know that if you’re deciding to do this, you’re going against what the data says.” And what is effective about that for us is, it takes it out of our mouths and it’s not me. I believe this is what it says. I suggest you go with the data. You can go against it if want to.
Dan:
Yeah, exactly. So, that was a big, huge thing is this how we’re going to be, as you know, I’ll call it the V3 version of Overit, Phase of innovation was really completely centered data analytics measurement.
Chris:
Which is where you started, like you said, you were in the data right back in the day.
Dan:
And what we were trying to do is utilize it and make it actually realistic and truly usable, and advantageous to do.
Chris:
Actionable.
Dan:
There is no thought that it was not the right thing to do. It’s just fact.
Chris:
Right.
Dan:
Right. So, and mix that with all the creative and all the great stuff that we’ve been doing for 25 years is how we’re going to inject that into this system. And the funny thing is, is I always send it up going back and finding these very unique, almost outcast type individuals that ended up, I was attracted to them from a talent perspective because I just, I think I had a good sense of, I don’t want to say genius, but finding these unique individuals that were driven to create and be able to push boundaries. And I think that’s a very important thing to keep the passion alive here at an agency.
Dan:
Like I was saying, it started with like Brian Mancell. And then there was this guy, Chris Powers, who came into play after Brian was out of the picture. And he was another one, just as insanely smart guy who actually ended up moving away for 15 years.
Chris:
Now he’s back.
Dan:
And then just recently, he was back at Overit, which is awesome. People like you, Lisa Barone, and all the people, the talented people that we surround ourselves with, I think a lot of it is like trying to find those unique individuals, to find a cohesive partnership with them to keep that innovation and forward-thinking alive because you need that.
Chris:
You need it. I know.
Dan:
You have to have it. And so, I think that was a big part of one of the things going through this pandemic that I’m totally committed to is, that’s the essence and the reason I started this. I mean, I didn’t put this down on paper and say, “Okay, what’s my EBITDA going to be? What’s my P and L going to look like and going into this business? That was not the intention. So, although we’ve done really pretty good-
Chris:
But that’s come along, right?
Dan:
Oh, well, yeah, I spend a lot of time on that now, Chris.
Chris:
Right. But that’s like any transition of someone, from someone that hustles to actually running a business, it’s just how long you resist making the transition. I felt like most people resist it as long as they can, and then realize, “I have to do this.”
Dan:
Right. I think I resisted to about the age of 35, to be honest with you.
Chris:
I mean, just because you feel there’s an artistic license that goes away a little bit. You still hold it, but you have to. In order to commit to a business, it’s structured, there’s things, money.
Dan:
I used to be in the dirt. So, I’d be in there with you, and in your dashboard.
Chris:
Right, exactly. I want you to be in there with me, but we need to have a house to live in, otherwise we’re going to be nowhere.
Dan:
Well, I’m never going to be as good at that, as you are.
Chris:
You know what I’m saying?
Dan:
But the reality is that I would love to be in there in the dirt with you, but I can’t do that anymore. So, the beautiful part is though, is the vision can still come, and I can still push those visions into the people that are more capable to execute on those visions. So, that’s where we’re at now. And I think we’ve built up a pretty solid thing. But it wasn’t your typical business structure plan at Overit.
Chris:
Right. You didn’t the plan and then try to execute on it, you just went and then it just-
Dan:
I mean, we truly wanted it. We were like, “We’re going to change the world.” You know what I mean? That’s what we thought when we were kids, “I’m going to change the world. We’re going to get over it.”
Chris:
Well, we are over it.
Dan:
That’s what we were going to do.
Chris:
We are on our way to change the world.
Dan:
Yeah.
Chris:
So, one thing I want to talk about with you is something that I, from the way I approach marketing aligns with me, and I don’t think a lot of marketing, at least from the agency of the things that I’ve seen and talked to people that I talk to, is a focus on, when we market, you think of like advertising, bringing people into a funnel that’s marketing. Here at Overit., we not only focus on people’s marketing, we focus on their sales. And I think that this has been a debate. A lot of agencies, a lot of places think it’s dangerous to get into that world. Right? Don’t talk about company sales because we can’t sell for them. So, we just want to give them leads, and we’re done.
Chris:
To me, I hate handing someone a report and being like, “You got 150 clicks and you spent a thousand bucks, let me know how that works out for you.” No way. It drives me insane. Because if someone handed me that report, I’d be like, “What does this mean to me?” So, I’ve tried to always take it all the way down to the dollar. You spend a thousand, you got a hundred clicks, five people bought something. You just spent 250 bucks. We lost $300 on that. Not a good situation. That seems logical. That seems right. And at Overit, when I came here, that’s what you talked to me about initially, “We want to get lead to sale. We want to talk sale, sale, sale.” Why the difference? And for you, is it the same thing? You feel incomplete to give them half of it, or you can’t have one without the other?
Dan:
Well, because when you’re dealing with clients at the end of the day, and it’s a dirty word, sales. And when people say sales or when we talk about sales a lot, which we talk about quite a bit in the creative community or an agency community, it’s almost like, whoa.
Chris:
What are you talking about?
Dan:
What are you talking about? But I think as we moved on, just the transparency was garbage, man. So, when we got involved, and it had nothing to do with our people trying to be legitimate or not, or are they bad people, and they’re not telling us the facts.
Chris:
Not that sort of transparency.
Dan:
They’re fluffing the numbers. It had nothing to do with that. Because we weren’t even on the ground floor when people started doing paid social, all that stuff. So, we were right there. And over the years, just constantly about, this information, how is it actually tying to the actual fact itself of-
Chris:
What’s the actual end point?
Dan:
… what’s the actual goal? What are you’re trying to accomplish?
Chris:
Right. What are you trying to do?
Dan:
So, it would always be the how, “This is how we did it.” It wasn’t like, “Here’s where we succeeded.” Like you said, “I got a thousand click-throughs. I got 28 form fills.”
Chris:
Which is great.
Dan:
But if you don’t know the actual result, which is always, and it was a lot easier in retail. It was all easier in E-com.
Chris:
Correct. E-com is [inaudible 00:33:11].
Dan:
But when you’re talking about a lot of our clients are like B2B and those are service based companies or larger corporations. And you’re looking at, they need results driven information and data. Then we better put a focus on the vision of coming together to be able to pinpoint getting to what we call final sale. Right. So, that is a real number. And when you’re talking to people that are in business, either a small business, a medium business, and even into a larger business, it’s not that they don’t care how many form fills or click throughs they have, but that’s not really that… They’re just collecting that information. Then they got to move on to a secondary process to try to figure out what does this all mean?
Chris:
Right.
Dan:
So, we just found that to be ridiculous. And that’s not going to work long-term.
Chris:
No, it’s not.
Dan:
So, somebody has to measure this thing from the very beginning, all the way through to the actual sale. And as you know, because you’re the guy that’s working on all this stuff, we’re doing it by channel, we’re doing it by source. We’re creating a SIS functionality. So, we know where everything is coming from. And the other beauty of it is that now we can actually, where it comes in, helpful on the creative side and the content side, is that we’re able to identify exactly what works and what doesn’t work, and what people are reacting to.
Dan:
So, I think we made that major shift to basically having Overit be a place that we’re driving business for people, and we’re held accountable with our goals. It’s critical.
Chris:
I feel like that that’s the difference between having a partner and having an agency that just does stuff for you, because a partner is immersed in it. They know your pain. When your sales go down 25% that month, I feel that too. I’m connected to you that, “Well, it’s not good.”
Dan:
Well, why are people hiring you?
Chris:
Well, that’s exactly right. But this is not the standard, from what I understand, is that sometimes in this game it’s sufficient just to say, “We did our job. Well, I don’t know what you did over there, but over here we got a thousand clicks. You lost 25%, not on us.” And I could never fathom having that conversation with someone, even if it was just someone doing a little bit of consulting and someone asked me, I would be, “What happened? What do you mean?” It’s the passion to really want to understand, it’s wanting to go past it, that’s the basis for everything you do.
Dan:
That’s critical.
Chris:
We just use the data to drive the conversation.
Dan:
Right. So, building those tool sets that you’ve been a part of for the past five years, right? Is just, that’s critical because it’s the only way that you’re going to be able to actually-
Chris:
It’s the only way.
Dan:
It’s the only way.
Chris:
It’s the only way.
Dan:
So, I mean, it’s just not a full 180 conversation, if you’re not actually talking about how this impacts your business for real, with real data. So, there’s nowhere to hide behind this.
Chris:
Nowhere to hide. Everyone is exposed.
Dan:
The people, your partners or your clients that you’re working with are always going to be able to identify. If they’re going to work with us, they’re going to get transparency.
Chris:
Correct.
Dan:
They’re going to know why we’re making these decisions.
Chris:
Correct.
Dan:
And what does that create? That creates a longer term relationship-
Chris:
It does and more respect.
Dan:
… and more respect.
Chris:
Correct. Yeah.
Dan:
So, we had to make a big decision. The whole trend in agencies or marketing companies was forget the agency model, where you’re working with clients for five, 10 years, and move towards a project based model.
Dan:
I’ve done projects for a long time and will continue to do the right projects to work on. But when you’re actually in the business with them and you’re part of their business, then you really can advise and drive them to being more successful. And at the end of the day, what do we really want to accomplish? A few things. We want our clients to be successful. We want to be successful. They make more money. We make more money.
Dan:
And then from the innovation standpoint, we want to be on the bleeding edge. So, I think it just is a win-win, not only for the company, but it’s a win-win for the clients and their business, and that’s why they come.
Chris:
Yep. And that’s why they come to us. And all the clients I work with will always ask me on the phone or ask us on the phone, “What do you guys think? What are your ideas?” It’s never like, “This is what I want to do, and just do it Overit.” And if we get that, I would say back, “Well, listen, we could do that, but let me tell you about why I don’t think that’s the best idea.” And I’m not afraid to say that to all of our clients. And they would never take that as, “How are you? This is my business.” Because they know I’m coming from a place of just wanting to grow their business.
Dan:
Exactly.
Chris:
And once you have those barriers broken down, it’s so much easier to work with, because when things aren’t that good, you guys get through it together, right? Because you have another someone. Everyone wants to go through a bad time with someone else, and have ideas to bounce off. You don’t want to do that by yourself. And I think that’s what we provide. I always look at it as like, I always bring it back.
Chris:
I think I mentioned to you it’s like advising the president. If I was advising the president, they have all these different advisors, and I sit down with him and I’m like, “Mr. President, I got a thousand bombs. I just dropped them on this country. Perfectly executed, all good.” And then I got up and I left. And he would be like, “Well, what happened? What did you do? Did it hit anything?” And I’d be like, “No, you just asked me to do that. So, here’s the report.”
Dan:
Right, exactly.
Chris:
I’m out. “Well, wait a second.” It’s not that. If you’re advising, you got to make the recommendation. Then you got to live it. If it goes well, you live it. If it goes bad, you live it, but you’re on. And you keep on going.
Dan:
Yeah. There’s no way to move forward. And in my opinion, there’s not really… The most beneficial way to use marketing and sales is together. And it’s most beneficial to have advisory when you’re doing that, and to see the benefits of utilizing the factual evidence that you have access to.
Dan:
And our big thing is actually developing and creating a platform where we could technically do it, which was a huge, enormous undertaking. And then, and now it’s, how do we leverage the content and the great video stuff, and the great audio stuff, and all the different things that we’ve always done?
Chris:
Put it all together. Right?
Dan:
And how do you get that ultimate scenario? Right. And that’s the vision really.
Chris:
So, in the vision we talked about the progression in the last five minutes, where we are now, what do you see as the bigger things or the best things coming for Overit? What are you really excited about as you look down the line for Overit as an agency positioning itself in a bit of a different way, I think, than a lot?
Dan:
Well, I think just being so involved with our clients and continuing to develop the products that we’re developing, to be able to inform really beneficial, actionable insights, and getting into AI and how we’re going to work with that. I also think that the way that the evolution of communication and engagement is right around the corner. So, another positive part about the pandemic or the acclimation of being able to meet people that… Now they’re actually, “Oh, Zoom, Google Meet.” So on and so forth. But where’s that going to go?
Dan:
So, we’re investing right now into hybrid models, virtual reality meetings, interesting types of presentations and how are we going to engage? How are we going to be using AI, 3D, virtual experiences and engagement? I think that’s just going to grow and grow, and grow as we move forward.
Dan:
I think augmented reality is going to be a huge part of this. And I think all of this stuff will be tied and fueled by correct decision making using data. And at the end of the day, it’s the storytelling. Are you telling great stories? Are you creating great content?
Chris:
Emotionally speaking to people.
Dan:
Emotionally, any type of emotional interaction and engagement. So, I think it’s really an exciting, great time. I think we’re going to see in the next 10 years, massive change. And I think that you’ll see traditional types of, the way people were doing their marketing just fall wayside, and people move on, because it’s becoming more part, not only of, let’s get the clients, and you know this because you’re looking at these things about getting the clients and pulling people in, or Pete telling the people about the message. It’s the ongoing engagement and that journey that they have when they’re engaging with you, your movie, your television show, whatever it may be.
Chris:
How many times did they do, where did they go?
Dan:
What’s their experience within that place? Is a huge focus for us.
Chris:
Right. Well, it has to be though, because a human spends more of their day on a digital blind, than they do in the normal reality, right? They’re on their phone. So, is it different than how they behave in the normal life? Because it is, and I’m trying to sell them there. I got to speak to them and act like how they’re acting in that space.
Chris:
And so, people don’t understand that there’s a digital profile of yourself out there somewhere, and you behave a certain way. And you might be able a little bit differently in the real world, but we’re trying to sell you on the digital space. So, we want to understand that. And it’s psychologically persona building in a whole another world. But it’s so cool, man.
Dan:
I come to you for the statistics, Right? So, I’ll come to you and ask like, what is people’s attention span dwindling to? How fast are they-
Chris:
It’s like two seconds.
Dan:
Two seconds. But what was it 10 years ago? What was it five years ago? And where is it going? So, and then how do you really create brand and true engagement that lasts?
Chris:
Yep. Yep, I know.
Dan:
So, that’s something that we’re going to continually be working on and looking at, and analyzing. But I think at the end of the day, it’s ridiculous to even think, “Okay, let’s make a plan for the year for your marketing. And we’re going to launch this campaign. And at the end of the year, we’re going to go back and take a look at it.” I mean, that’s just insane.
Chris:
I know. For everybody that’s been interested to learn more about Overit, obviously this is the Get Overit Podcast. They can go to overit.com. They can look at everything that’s available. They can reach out to one of us at Overit, and talk to us about their projects, their desires, or even just bounce an idea off. I think that’s the other cool thing about Overit, is that we’re here as a business to sell, but we want to talk to you and hear about what your issues are.
Dan:
Definitely.
Chris:
He is Dan Dinsmore. I am Chris Fasano. This is the Get Overit Podcast, where we don’t just talk about ways to get through it, but we talk about ways to get over it. Dan, man, I appreciate it, brother. Thanks, man.
Dan:
Thank you, Chris.